Even tho you added an edit. You’re still wrong. Garbage collection is typically a high paying job because no one wants to do it. But people still consider it “below” them and don’t want to do it even when there’s a high unemployment rate.
This is over 20 years old, and I'm sure doesn't hold true in all areas, but at least at one point there was high demand to be a "san man" ("san" as in "sanitation") in NYC:
> It's a coveted job to be a New York City san man. When they last gave the qualifying test, 30,000 people took it. The General waited five years after passing the exam before a job came open, which is typical. And though the work is grueling, the pay-- if you're actually on a truck-- starts at $40,000 and can go to $60 after just five years. [note: this is in 2003 dollars!] A good winter, meaning one with lots of overtime for clearing snow-- they clear snow, too-- can make for a $90,000 year for a senior guy.
And that's how it should be. Trash men should be making $200K and have high social status whereas the devs helping Bezos to his 5th super yacht or Zuck poison more kids should get minimum wage and treated as pariahs. Unfortunately at the country level it's reversed.
Absolutely 100% agree, and I’m glad people are saying this.
The internet has become a joke since the digital advertisement agencies, Google and Facebook and so on got the web under their control.
While high functioning societies invest in their people’s infrastructure, some societies invest in propaganda and premiere greed over keeping the country clean.
You are both wrong and this is why they win the salary of the coder is not high the taxes on bezos and co are less and the public workers pay less. That what needs to be change not labour be paid less no matter what kind of labour
I don't know if I would call it high pay anywhere ive lived. It is okay pay around me right now in a less prosperous area of the country for not requiring tools or previous skills. But the main thing going for it around here is stability of hours, a decent amount of holidays off, and you don't have to destroy your body.
That is literally double what people around here are paid. And they certainly don't give anyone overtime if they can help it. If you break $60K you gotta worry about them trying to replace you if you aren't one of their top performers.
For manual labor I thought the guys I know who do garbage pickup have a great job - their hours are shifted so they work from 4am to noon so they have plenty of time for hobbies and family outside of that. All the time sitting and driving the truck is hard though they rarely have to handle anything manually with standardized bins and hydraulic lifts.
Daylight hours even in winter for outdoor things, we would ride bicycles together but they also played golf and rode off road motorcycles, it’s possible to do these activities at night in some fashion but during day on weekdays is less crowded and more accessible, most parks/trails are closed in the dark for cycling/running/hiking. Working non normal hours like this also opens up activities with whole family in afternoon after kids are picked up from school instead of getting home after normal commute times in evening. Should have written "outdoor" hobbies.
Ok, but society can't bear the cost of $10M garbage men, so either people will do it themselves or go without.
The same argument applies to any job: in most scenarios, it pays what it's worth to society at the market clearing price. The government can interfere via licensing, minimum wages, quotas, etc; but broadly the job pays what it's worth.
Pay and worth are different, just like price and value are. Garbage collection is worth a lot, but its pay is determined by market dynamics. As the number of unemployed increases, it will pay less.
You left out “at the market clearing price”, then described a scenario where the supply of labor increases and the price drops, proving my exact point.
“Worth” and “at the market clearing price” are different concepts, which was my point. The job doesn't pay what it's worth, it pays the market price, which is determined by market dynamics, not how much people value it.
Society cannot function without garbage people. It must be done or society will collapse quickly, so society better find a pay rate that gets the job done.
This thread feels like it went off the rails given that every locale I've ever lived in (many across the US) had fine, working garbage collection, and plenty of competent garbage men who worked for what I'm guessing was decent pay, certainly less than $10 million a year.
I think in reality, it shouldn't be hard to find people willing to take out garbage by simply paying a little better than other manual-labor jobs. There's always going to be people who can't work other jobs for some reason, so if they're choosing between manual labor jobs, the one that pays more is going to be more attractive. They don't need to pay enough to hire a doctor, because not that many people can do high-value work like that competently.
And there will always be people who think that driving around in a heated/air-conditioned truck with a big claw that picks up and empties the cans is a fun job and will happily do it at any reasonable pay level.
Not everyone wants to work in an office; some people really like working outside and being indoors is like prison.
Those jobs require some physical handling of the garbage. That big claw doesn't always work as expected, and when things go wrong, they have to get out and clean up the mess. There's also items that don't fit in the can and have to be manually handled.
But you're right, the job isn't as bad as it used to be.
Well, my point wasn't really that the job has gotten easier, it's that some people simply prefer doing that kind of work.
I remember being in a meeting once when a manager looked out at the guys on a scaffold cleaning the windows and remarked "at least we don't have to be out there like them." My first thought was that they were probably thinking "at least we don't have to be inside like them."
While I can understand the sentiment, I think most of this is fantasy. A lot of people vastly underestimate the toll manual labor takes on one's body. It may be nice to ponder "Wow, it must be so great to work out in the sunshine all day!", compare anyone doing physical labor (and I count extended driving in that) age 50+ with any office worker 50+. Sure, anyone 50+ has standard aches and pains, but I've seen many physical laborers dealing with constant pain and a lot of degenerative diseases at that age.
The thread started out off the rails. Contrary to the claims of youre-wrong3, garbage collection is not a particularly high paying job and has no real trouble getting new hires.
I'm not sure you'll attract the right kind of people with that much money. Probably a lot of people looking for a quick buck will apply, do a good job for long enough to not get outright fired, collect a few cash checks, and then knock it off.
I think there would actually be enough people willing to do blue collar jobs if job security is alright. Low-status jobs are defined by low job security, not necessarily by harsh working conditions.
